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What Return Of Kings.com Taught Me.

November 24, 2013
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Unfortunately, I was born a woman and due to greedy, privileged western society I have become a feminist. I fit right into the Western, white, 18-22 age band for feminists [1] even though we are already all equal and us feminists only want control! [2] So now I’m really worried. If I want to find myself a husband I best abandon my “I am a sentient, free human person who deserves common human decency” label and start knitting myself a bonnet and some scarves for the children. My opinions and decisions will ensure no man will ever take interest in me ever again, and that is my ultimate nightmare. I assume it is your’s too fellow women, I mean: a life without one of these men dictating your every waking moment? No thank you.

So, I thought I best share what I’ve learnt from reading Return Of Kings before we all end up as old, overweight, feminist spinsters:

1. Appearance: Don’t Be Fat.

I currently weigh around 118ibs at 5″4 and my measurements are 36 - 24.5 - 36. Now, I’m not sure if that makes me too fat to catch the attention of one of these fine alpha males? But let’s say if your BMI is getting close to the Overweight side of Normal, it’s time to start fasting and doing squats; that’s just science. You don’t want to be one of those ‘have nots’ who struggle with their weight all the time and so are an irritating burden/ embarrassment to their men [3].

As RoK are so against these fat chicks waddling around like they deserve to be alive, they recently held an entire ‘Fat Shaming Week’ [4]. How thoughtful. I’ve learnt that fat people are atheists [5] (which is also undesirable apparently?), they are evil [6] and they just don’t deserve love [7]. That’s right, the more fat you ingest the lower your worth as a human being will fall. The more you know.
RoK have also suggested that we take pictures of ‘fatties’ in order to shame them using their photo on the internet, because it is our place to do that to another person [8]. You can use this to your advantage by showing these pictures to men who will be enticed by your complete and utter disregard for other people’s feelings and you will be rewarded with attention. It is also necessary to bully fat people you meet in public by taking them on any activities that require movement because they can’t do anything [9]. However, you will also stay adamant that ‘thin privilege’ does not exist and never mention it, ever [10].

“But that doesn’t seem like enough shame to convince women to lose weight and remain thin!” I hear you cry. For those of you who are really dedicated to the cause, you can level up: develop a severe eating disorder. Those girls struggling with crippling mental health problems cost less money and are better in bed due to all those insecurities [11]. Your ideal man will help you in this pursuit by controlling your diet, whether that is by shaming you in public or hiding your food [12].
This is where it gets a bit trickier. In an ideal world you are Russian [13] or Brazillian. If you are not either of those nationalities you will most likely be regarded as stuck up, rude, angry, fussy, annoying and cold [14]. You must combat these things and remain thin, submissive and pretty in order to gain a man’s attention.

2. Finding A Man: Don’t Be A Slut But Also Sleep With Every Man Who Feigns Interest.

Take a look at RoK’s article ‘24 Signs She’s A Slut‘. This is where I hit yet another roadblock on my way to happiness, as twelve items on the list apply to me. The problem with me making these decisions early on in my life is that no guy wants a slut. What they actually want is a girl who will have sex with them on the first date. Confused? Well, according to RoK sluts are some of the worst kinds of women [15] [16], second only to ‘fatties’ I assume. They argue that “the healthy woman avoids both these fates [either being ‘The Prude’ or ‘The Slut’], by surrendering herself to a man, but only to the one who has her affection and reverence.” [17].

However, there are tons of articles on how to get a woman to have sex with men on the first date [18] there’s even one on how to get laid on a train [19]. So we must attempt to decipher their message. You can remain celibate until you find a guy who you instantly fall for/ has a “sick aquarium” then proceed to have sex with them on the first date [20] - which will probably in it’s self indicate that you are in fact a slut - and be completely fine when you receive no follow up call. Bare in mind that every guy you do not have sex with on the first date will probably think you were a prude or simply after his money, but you can’t just be having sex with everybody. You think you have control over your body, oh sweetie no, that is not what these men want.

Either way, you are probably going to get hurt. I mean, women are just a conquest to proper men [21]. You shouldn’t be bringing your feelings into this, feelings are caused by the ovaries drifting around the body and are completely typical woman faf that these men don’t find appealing. What are feelings, amirite sociopathic-bros? There are no feelings, only the undeniable fact that these double standards exist because women idealise “studs” and that’s okay [22].

So, which man should you wait for to have sex with on the first date? What should you do in order to lock down a man? Apparently, be a ‘hustler’ or ‘gold-digger’ [23]. Yup. When done properly, being a gold-digger (or any woman who successfully births a child with an athlete according to RoK) garners huge respect. Preferably, this man will be two levels below you on the hot scale and ten years older so he will stick around after your appearance deteriorates [24]. This should be pretty easy if you are a young girl because they are better than women, always [25].

3. Keeping A Man: The Ultimate Goal.

Look how far you’ve come. You have abandoned feminism, developed an eating disorder and have found yourself a successful, rich, older man. Happy days. However, this means it’s time to whack your baggage out and there’s a lot of it that these guys just can’t be doing with.

Here’s what I’ve learnt when regarding my own life experiences. Firstly, having been on JSA - which I assume is the English equivalent of Welfare - I should die because that’s what biology dictates [26]. But I’m going to fight through this as I can improve, honest. Thankfully, I don’t own a horse [27] so at least I have that in my favour.

Hopefully, my wonderful boyfriend will forgive me for being on JSA and we can continue to see each other, thank the Lord. Now, it’s time for him to meet my family, which should be okay as they are all lovely without being too involved, that’s fine. BUT, I am estranged from my father. This is a huge problem as I didn’t have a man to train me [28]. If you find yourself in the same predicament I suggest you argue that you will relinquish this control to your boyfriend as you are here to follow. If he’s a good man, he’ll stay with you because he is so understanding and takes pity on you. In addition to this, you better check he accepts that you are inevitably a cheapskate [29] and a sheep [30].

As I am a white woman I expect a lot of shit that I don’t deserve, like a good job [31]. You better just give up on this bullshit unless you want to be a secretary. If you become the boss of a company then you’ll have no male employees [32] and will be deemed too independent and a ball buster. I highly recommend you don’t work in tech [33] because we just fuck everything up and tech is a man’s game. Really, your ultimate goal is to become a stay at home mum.

But like Hell are those kids going to be bastard children, and you can’t raise them as a single mum [34]. If you ever do get pregnant, they have a guide to convincing women to get an abortion, so you’re all set [35]. However, in reality nobody wants ruined property. The obvious solution is to get married. Now I know, I know you can’t turn a whore into a housewife [36] but this guy wants to keep you around as he has gotten too old for 100% successful game and his side-pieces are losing interest. Might as well stick with you.

There are many gifts you must order your friends to purchase for your future husband, including a paternity voucher and a fork that vibrates when you’re shovelling food into your mouth too quickly like the pig you are [37]. In case your husband is American and you are not, here is a guide on how he can care for and feed his new foreign wife [38].

Now it’s time for you to settle down and start pushing out those kids. There is no shame in being a stay at home mum, however you better not make a big deal out of it because those women don’t even do anything [39].

Finally, you have succeeded. You have an older, alpha male husband, you are a stay at home mum with legitimate children. Live the rest of your life doing the bidding of your husband, cooking meals and remaining thin and healthy until you reach old age and he leaves you for a younger model.

Congratulations.

Meanwhile, in reality…

Return Of Kings is one of the worst, most boring sites I have ever been on. Did you know some men are threatened by feminism? Of course you did, because these men never shut up about it. This is where sites such as RoK come from; a ridiculous, pointless endeavour to desperately maintain the patriarchy. Return Of Kings is a tiny, barely significant piece of the Internet where misogynists can all rally together and feel validated posting their outdated heterosexual male woes about how us women are too mouthy and slutty these days. These guys are really digging deep in order to display their most sexist, misogynistic opinions so they get a larger audience and maybe gain a couple more equally narrow-minded Neanderthals. Although they gloat about their recent bit of media coverage, in reality and judging by their Facebook page, there’s only a couple thousand people who agree with them. But in desperate times, this must seem like an accomplishment.

Now, I am most definitely a feminist. When I say ‘feminist’ I mean I believe men and women should be equal. I actually mean feminist. That does not mean I am a misandrist, that does not mean I believe all men are evil/unnecessary/unentitled. Almost every human being on this planet deserves respect. One of the exceptions to this rule however, is anyone who supports the oppression of other people. Return Of Kings seeks to oppress anyone who is not a heterosexual, cis, masculine male; because they are manly men, fuck you all. They can spout out their inane misogyny, but when women reply we are labelled feminists in the most derogatory sense. How dare we want to be treated as human beings when we are here solely to follow and satisfy the men?
What’s more comical is that these men are obviously really worried and frightened because of us women, it’s as though they think we all have lists around the world reading step 1: close the wage gap, step 2: mass genocide of all straight men. They have multiple arguments against feminism, but most of them boil down to “they are fat and have opinions!” which is a solid, firm argument for a bunch of people with the mental maturity of a seven year old. Well done guys.

I know I may have to live my life without an alpha male husband ordering me around, but you guys don’t want a girl like me anyway. I want to be independent and strong and treated as an equal in society and by my partner. A partner isn’t even a necessity in my eyes, but a welcome addition to my life as I would be an addition to his. I do not want an entitled asshole who is obsessed with a society and set of standards that is slowly dwindling away. Sure, I know you guys will get laid but the amount of emphasis you put on that being due to game and how that means you are beating feminism is ridiculous and delusional. We make the choice to put up with men like you, you barely have any control in the matter.

RoK are obsessed with the progression and evolution of society, but their ultimate goal is simply a failing attempt to patch up any holes made in the patriarchy and it’s just not going to work. They can vent their frustration at the reality that women are no longer willing to be below them and that the patriarchy is threatened as much as they like, but it will change nothing. It must be exhausting fighting the inevitable. Poor babies. I may donate some money towards building a raft for them so they don’t drown in their misogynist tears.

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  • Anonymous

    You just made them even more money and popularity. It couldn’t have been that boring if you spent enough time reading their blog posts to glean all of that information, could it? Nobody is taking either you or RoK seriously

    • http://thereyouaresibby.co.uk Siobhan Harmer

      That’s strange, because you seem to have taken my post very seriously. I made them more money and popularity? You seriously over estimate the impact this blog has on anything. Their content is boring yes, that doesn’t mean writing my opinions on it was.

  • a

    Feminism is the bane of the Western world… It’s about time men start waking up and challenging it’s faulty ideologies.

    • http://thereyouaresibby.co.uk Siobhan Harmer

      Where are you guys even coming from?

  • http://www.the3bromigos.com bojangles

    Another whore who found a website so boring, she read it all and then wrote a shit essay about it. Another western white privileged slut.

    • http://thereyouaresibby.co.uk Siobhan Harmer

      Another man who hates opinionated women, shocking.

      • http://www.the3bromigos.com bojangles

        Nope, just thick women who crave attention, like yourself. You’re from Hull, which is a fucking cesspit of low class dirty scumbags who lack education.

        • http://thereyouaresibby.co.uk Siobhan Harmer

          Wait a minute, I thought I was privileged? Put some effort in Bojangles. If you’re going to label me with uneducated, unoriginal stereotypes and opinions that you get from the Daily Mail and RoK you might as well stick to one instead of throwing them all my way. Or is that the only way you know how to communicate? Kind of like an ape throwing shit?

          Come up with some new, reality based, reasonable insults at least, Christ. ‘Til then I suggest you stop harassing and creeping on women who aren’t threatened by you on the Internet, it’s weird. I do have an alternative solution to your problem with me though; get the fuck off my site and move on with your day.

  • Master Alex

    The mythical patriarchy took the best care of women it knew how to, with genuine concern while treating the average man as disposable. More female influence was necessary to truly address female specific concerns. There are maybe a handful problems that “feminism” could genuinely positively help. But as an ideology, as a movement, as a belief system, it is bloated, redundant, it blames men for problems that women are actually chief perpetrators of (slut shaming, fat shaming, housewife shaming.. no wait, some feminists do that too, domestic abuse etc). When it is given authority, such as in US Government or the UN it promotes biased unequal laws on domestic abuse and focuses on girls and women specifically, while there is no dedicated program for vulnerable boys, who in some countries are forced to rape their mothers at gunpoint, given a gun and told to kill and die for strangers. Feminists are the ultimate victim blamers. They say “Yes, but it is other MEN that do this to boys.” as if being the same gender as your oppressor gives you equal guilt. The hypocrisy of feminism is unrivalled, and Return of Kings openly and happily mocks you for it, as do the rest of free thinking people worldwide. And thank god/xenu we do have a sense of humour, else we might end up like your kind.

    • Anonymous

      Boom!

    • http://thereyouaresibby.co.uk Siobhan Harmer

      I really took the time to read this and took your points seriously until the last couple of sentences. I can see the logic behind most of your arguments, but you and RoK combat these problems by promoting misogyny, as well as homophobia and transphobia. How does that help society? Women want to be treated equally, you can’t stop that and you have no right to deny us that. In fact, when your kind continually treat women struggling to be treated equally as a joke it makes our fight look more necessary. You are validating the reason why feminism exists. That is why the extremes you discuss in your argument happen; you push us back so we have to push back harder. RoK is not a whimsical, satirical outlook on society as you describe it to be here. RoK is genuinely hateful towards a large amount of other human beings and that can’t be played down as a ‘sense of humour’ just to cover up how truly misogynistic and socially harmful your kind really are.

  • Mike Darby

    Thank you. This is one of the first articles I’ve read to articulate how I feel about RoK. I was getting depressed at the utter disappointment the internet was proving to be these past few days till now.

    • http://thereyouaresibby.co.uk Siobhan Harmer

      Thanks, I was beginning to think no one with two brain cells to knock together was reading this.

  • Anonymous

    About 2… Men want to fuck sluts, but they never want to marry one

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  • 少女時代

    Hello,I read your blogs named “There You Are Sibby” like every week. Your humoristic style is witty, keep doing what you`re doing! And you can see my website about 少女時代.

  • http://WebsiteURL Kilmeister

    So boring that the this chick took the time to read and get mad enough to post about it. Typical female response to truth, just get mad. Another W for ROK.

    • http://thereyouaresibby.co.uk Siobhan Harmer

      Urgh. As I said above: it was boring to read, not to write about. Apologies if this response is too aggressive, my womb is making me angry.

  • http://WebsiteURL Kate

    I’ve had all positive things happen since I’ve started reading ROK
    -It’s okay for me to be feminine. Guys are guys, girls are girls
    -I’ve started cooking more and learning new skills
    -I’m more focused overall on self improvement
    -I can read guys and their game even better
    -I need to continue to not be a slut
    -I now put more effort into my appearance even if I’m picking up groceries

    • http://thereyouaresibby.co.uk Siobhan Harmer

      Just in case this isn’t satire: what a phallocentric life you do lead. Much internalised misogyny. Number one woman.

      • http://WebsiteURL Penguin

        Most men do a huge amount of effort to be attractive to women and it’s perfectly fine. But if one woman want to improve herself (learn new skills, etc.) and to be attractive to men, she’s living a phallocentric life?
        You write an article on how terrible it is for RoK to say things like “don’t be fat”, “don’t be a slut” and yet that’s exactly what your doing, criticizing the choices of an admirable woman…

        • http://thereyouaresibby.co.uk Siobhan Harmer

          Because it sounds as though she makes those decisions based off of what men want and for men; how is that not phallocentric? Plus she reads RoK, I mean c’mon.

  • http://WebsiteURL DrJohno

    ROK is not about telling women what they want to hear, it’s about telling Men what they need to hear. It’s written in a language full of subtleties only Men can understand so it’s no surprise your disgust at it -you just can’t get it. Anyway, I think you should absolutely do more posts about other Manosphere sites so that more men can get access to this valuable knowledge. I’m not kidding, I really love ROK and as a Game-aware Man your reaction is more that expected.

    • http://thereyouaresibby.co.uk Siobhan Harmer

      Nice try with the old ‘women don’t understand man talk/ humour’ reasoning there Dude-bro, but RoK is about as subtle as a brick to the face.
      However, If I have misunderstood are you suggesting that RoK don’t actually promote most of the issues I mentioned? And if so, what the Hell are they actually writing about?

  • http://WebsiteURL Dr B

    They don’t think there is any way to find a desirable woman, a beautiful, nice girl who wants to be a mother and good wife. The kind of woman that raised a happy family in the 40’s. These just don’t exist anymore in the West. That’s why they are giving tips on how to seek out promiscuous women and keep them disposable while at the same time despising them. RoK is a guide on how to adapt to the horrible changes initiated by feminists.

    • http://thereyouaresibby.co.uk Siobhan Harmer

      You perceive the changes feminists (and society as a whole, might I add) are making as horrible because they don’t benefit you. People who think like this are, at the root of it all, selfish.

      Of course there are kind, desirable, beautiful, nice women who would love to have children and raise them with a husband who she loves/ respects and who loves/ respects her. Equally. That is something billions of women want. What many women don’t want is to be treated as lesser to their husbands, to be with men who clearly have no respect for women in general because they are happy to participate and promote psychologically and emotionally playing with them like animals. You don’t seem to think of women as people, but as an ideal, and then you’re angry at us because that ideal doesn’t exist anymore. Can you even understand how ridiculous that is?

      Why don’t men like you respect strong, independent, courageous, adventurous women? Women with self-respect who would love and care for you because she genuinely wants to, not because society pressures her into thinking she needs to be with a man? Is it because you’re scared that if women were completely equal they wouldn’t give you the time of day, possibly because you’re disrespectful with immature and outdated views on the world? You are nothing more than selfish. Gain a bit of empathy and perspective for your fellow human beings.

  • http://WebsiteURL Dr B

    Any bit of progress starts with an ideal. Aren’t you idealizing me right now by thinking there is potential I might treat women as equals? Isn’t that an ideal? The entire point of RoK is to dispel popular ideals of women that aren’t realistic, and use a bit of funny satire while doing it. That’s the thing. You should be grateful that they point out the flaws of women, it makes women more realistic. But instead you are outraged because your pride is too great and your conditioning is too deep to admit that you are anything less than a royal Disney princess.

    Women are less than their husbands. Why else would they have an instinct to be submissive to an alpha male. That doesn’t mean they should be treated as less of a human being but it does mean they should admit what they are and what they aren’t.

    This has worked well for millions of years. It has advanced the species. Look at the divorce rate since the 40’s, the instances of mental issues in children from single parents, the crime, etc. and it is clear that feminism has hurt our society. To me a strong, courageous, adventurous woman runs against the feminist pop culture and does what is best for everyone, not just herself, who values her ability to give birth and special abilities to raise children.

    You should admit that the sexes are equal. For example, you could get a man to fix the font size for the comments section on your blog that people could actually read them.

    • http://thereyouaresibby.co.uk Siobhan Harmer

      I’m idealising you in a way that would encourage progression, your ideals promote regression or remaining stagnant. I don’t need flaws to be pointed out in women, why would I be grateful for it? Sure, point out the flaws in certain people; some women can be irrationally naggy and not particularly great at stereotypically male-talents, that doesn’t apply to ever human with a vagina though? Some men are like that. Some people are like that. Every single human being has different strengths and weaknesses, that doesn’t come down to solely which set of genitals we were born with. (I don’t believe that sex and gender are necessarily the same thing, but I won’t get into that because you are already waaaaay behind on what society is actually like in the real world now.)

      This dynamic of women as a home-maker/ child raiser and the man as the provider did work for millions of year, yes. When that system first began, do you think it was because women were less than their male counterparts? No, it was because they were given different jobs that matched their innate talents: women have the ability to give birth to children, so they might as well stick to doing all things children related. Men can then go hunt and provide for their families, fine. Makes sense.

      However, as society progressed so did the idea that men are superior to women, which is completely irrelevant to the base jobs we were given at the beginning. That is a societal construct, without psychological or biological basis. We’ve evolved past the need for jobs to apply to either sex so we can progress as a society. It’s outdated and extremely detrimental to women. That’s why feminism was created. Women wanted to be able to vote, to be able to divorce their husbands if they treat them like shit, to have rights. We want to be treated equally, to be able to make decisions that make an impact. That was the next step in our society. Of course, if women chose to be a home-maker and raise their children whilst their husband choses to go out to work then I have nothing but respect and admiration for them. That doesn’t mean that that is what all women want, it shouldn’t be forced upon us. But men like you don’t like that, you are holding on to a time that benefited your gender, a time that’s passed. Let it go already; it’s 2013, not 1940 or 5000BC.

      So I go back to my point in my last comment: you are selfish, and add that you are actually holding back the progression of society. Women are making incredible discoveries and benefitting civilisation because they are able to, because of the work of early feminists, why would you be against that? You’ve demonised feminism in your head to mean something entirely different to what it’s actually about.

      (You’re jab about the comment size made me laugh. It has truly cut me to the core. It’s not that I made a conscious decision to keep them small whilst I was working on this theme. I don’t know how I shall go on. I will definitely find a man to help me look through the theme files because I don’t understand anything or have eyes now. What are you talking about dude? I suggest you get a man to teach you how to zoom in since you can’t handle font that doesn’t take up 100px with every letter.)

  • http://WebsiteURL Dr B

    Oh, progress is important. We should definitely be progressive. But I guess I don’t understand how you find modern feminism progressive. You never actually list what the benefits are. Women have more freedom, the ability to vote, to divorce, and be treated “equally” as you say. All benefits for you. And maybe it is selfish of me not to condone you being selfish and seek these benefits for yourself. But look at all the social ills that result from feminism. Broken homes. RoK is great at pointing out the horrible results. It is one of many facets that is the disease of Leftism.
    I’m not going to defend everything about RoK. I agree with you that it is silly to complain about the lack of virtuous women and then give tips on how to bang the promiscuous ones. I’m not a womanizer myself, in fact I’m a great supporter of women’s rights. But RoK brings up an important discussion which in our society ist vertboten, which is the awful behavior of women in popular culture. Everywhere I look women are being celebrated for being rude, angry, domineering, loose. A strong woman bucks the trend and determines for herself what her strengths are as a woman, and embraces the most precious ability she has been given, to be a mother together with a successful husband.

    • http://thereyouaresibby.co.uk Siobhan Harmer

      Modern feminism exists so that women are able to make their own choices. Modern feminism allows women to rise to the same level as men in society, so the burden is equal. Modern feminism ensures women that it is okay to do something other than be a baby making and mothering machine: they can be CEO’s, soldiers, and anything in-between based off of what they want to do with their lives, not what society expects of them. Modern feminism aims for women to be recipients of the privileges and benefits that men have received for centuries, so that we can experience the one life that we get without being oppressed and treated as lesser humans because of social constructs that were created before we were even alive and aware of the world. We are only selfish if you perceive modern feminism as taking things away from you. We are not trying to take things away from men, we are trying to be equal. You’re view is selfish however, because you are trying to take things away from women (choice, self-esteem etc.), or keep things away from us, see how that works?

      There are broken homes because women can make the decision to leave now. Homes were just as broken before feminism, but women couldn’t escape. Are you suggesting women remaining miserable in a marriage is more beneficial than them being able to move on and be happier? Particularly if it also benefits their children? Also, broken homes are not just the woman’s fault?

      I’m glad that we have some common ground in this debate. I completely agree that a women strong determines what her strengths are, but as a person, not as a walking womb. People shouldn’t be rude, I agree. But being angry is a human emotion, it’s okay. Men are celebrated for being domineering, why shouldn’t women be? And being loose is a personal preference and decision, it’s got literally nothing to do with anyone else.

  • http://WebsiteURL Dr B

    Where did I say I want to take anything away from women? I think women should be allowed to ruin their lives. If they prefer to be loose and end up in the gutter, they can go ahead. This is more consequential to you than me, because all the guys flock to the loose women, low hanging fruit, and not you. All I’m asking is that they be encouraged not to be loose. It doesn’t benefit anyone really.
    Yes, you can be a CEO, soldier, or anything. But does equality mean lowering the standards so some women can be included, establishing a quota? Giving men a handicap so women can be included in the game? Doesn’t equality mean women get in on equal merits compared to men? If they do, I have no problem with that. Too often equally actually means preferential treatment for the “minority.” Any “minority.” Look at our esteemed African-American President.
    Women should do what is best for the children. If that means staying in a moderately unhappy marriage, then yes they should. Men do that. The role of father in the child’s life is almost always disregarded by the women. The natural battle between the sexes leads them to cut the father out, and this profoundly damages the offspring.
    And the man should be the patriarch of the family. It does not mean he is more important, just that he is the leader. This is why women shouldn’t be domineering. Their children get messed up. Co-equal but different roles.

    • http://thereyouaresibby.co.uk Siobhan Harmer

      You take away from women by limiting them with your ideals. It’s not a case of being ‘allowed’ to do anything. I honestly could not care less about where the “guys flock”, and I’m all for women who get laid a lot, good on them. Who are any of us to control what another person does or doesn’t do if it doesn’t actually harm anyone?

      The idea that standards have be lowered and that being on the same level as women translates to you as men having a handicap says it all. I discussed preferential treatment of women in another comment above; I don’t agree with blaming men for everything and women getting the preferential treatment, but it happens because the reality of our fight for equality is still new, society hasn’t figured out quite how to play the new game yet. Also, women are not a minority. I can’t tell if that is a racist dig at Obama or an observation?

      Everyone should do what’s best for their children, but also what’s best for themselves. Children growing up in a home where their parents hate each other can’t be happier than children of divorced but civil parents. You just spent ages arguing that women should be using their natural talents to raise children and that that is their precious ability, and then get mad that father’s roles are disregarded? That’s because everyone always goes on about the mothers’ role, when it should be equal.

      I’m a child of a ‘broken home’ in which my father decided to just not be involved in my life, but I know that both of my parents are happier apart. Children are compassionate, empathetic and understanding: no child would wish an unhappy life upon their parents in the name of raising them. That could make the child see him/herself as a burden, and that’s not healthy. All that said, we always have the choice to challenge what we were raised with, at some point it just becomes an excuse if you’re an asshole because your parents got divorced ages ago.

      If a man wants to be the leader of a family, and the woman is happy with the man leading the family, then sure. But that shouldn’t be a blanket idea/ construct for all families always everywhere.

  • http://WebsiteURL Dr B

    I’m limiting you with my ideals? It’s just your perception that my ideals are limiting. It’s actually liberating to discipline yourself, to not be promiscuous, overbearing, etc. Let me give an example. Yesterday I was helping some girls make Christmas cookies. I’m putting frosting on my cookie when one of them says she needs it. I say I’ll be done in a second, and before I knew it another girls grabs it out of my hand and hands it to the girl. I was shocked. Needless to say I immediately walked out the door and won’t be giving any of them the time of day.

    I applaud your effort to understand the problems RoK brings up. It is more than 90% of females are willing to do. But you have displayed vulgar vocabulary and attacks on my character while I have been nothing but courteous. It is outrage from insecurity. And that’s fine, you should sort things out for yourself. I grew up in the typical happy nuclear family and I have seen how well the conservative roles can work. I don’t want to take anyone’s choice away. I don’t want to say that’s the only way. But it is the best way and I lament that it is so difficult to find a female whose behavior I don’t detest.

    • http://thereyouaresibby.co.uk Siobhan Harmer

      The ideals you displayed previously - that women should be home-makers, etc. Women should not be anything, women can be whatever they choose to be. Those particular girls just sound incredibly rude, I’d have said something because that’s just unnecessary and disrespectful (to you as a person, not as a man).

      Thank you, but that is not something you’ve made clear throughout our discussion. I don’t know you, I literally have no idea who you are. My challenges have been based entirely on my perception of you inside of this discussion. I don’t believe I have used vulgar vocabulary at all and my ‘attacks’ are based on the character you are portraying to me. I also don’t believe I have conveyed any insecurities, but okay.

      I have been welcomed into and have viewed happy nuclear families and it is a wonderful dynamic. My best friend is part of a family in which his stepfather is the epitome of the patriarch, he makes all the final decisions and they function together incredibly well and I deeply admire them. I am part of a family that is the complete polar opposite of that, but we are just as happy, just as loving as my friend’s family are. The ability to provide a child with love, happiness, kindness and stability comes from people, not from dynamics.

      Why do you detest most women’s behaviour?

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  • Rose

    Siobhan, this is an old blog but I’ll post anyway. A friend posted about rok on facebook so I looked at the site, then I googled it wondering if it was satire or not. Apparently it’s not. Then I found your blog. I think it’s great when men are upfront about their opinions on women, it tells us who to avoid. I rather that then get with a guy and find out he is a rok-style one later down the track.

    A big meh to rok. The people on there just haven’t met any decent women yet, or they have had a bad experience with them at one point.

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